- General
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Ideas
Long Range Weapons: Wand too strong, Bow too weak
Hi, it has been a long time I haven't played this game. I started again around a week ago, and I saw both many improvements and many problems that haven't changed much since the last time I played this game.
I haven't played the game in months, so obviously I've got to rasp some rust away. Still while playing the game I noticed that:
-The bow is very weak, while the wand is too strong, it's really the comparison between the two the most important thing because using the bow as my weapon of choice I feel that I always have a chance against all the other weapons, while I usually have none against the wand. While it's obvious that the bow deals more damage than the wand, the wand fires a lot faster than the bow does. The bow presents some input issues. I made some calculations, but unfortunately I'm bad with math so there will be mistakes.
-Attack rate.
To fire with the bow you have to wait 1 second for the animation to complete its course, this means that theoretically you can fire around 60 arrows x minute.
The wand, on the other hand, can fire around 3-4 projectiles in a second (don't know the exact number as I couldn't take measurements since I don't own the wand) which is something like 240 projectiles x minute. That's 4 times more than the bow.
This by itself is not a problem as they're just different long-range weapons, if it wasn't for another series of factors that make the wand quite OP and the bow very ineffective, particularly against the wand.
-The wand deals much more damage on the long run.
This is because of how much damage is dealt with each weapon. The bow takes around 5.2 hits to kill an adversary, with the wand I'm not sure but I read here in the forum that one hit takes away around 1/8th of the total health. The bow deals more than double the damage, but the speed completely inverts the equation.
Let's make a quick calculation: if the wand deals around, 4 dmg x s, the bow only deals 1 dmg x s. This means that a bow user has to wait 6 seconds to kill an unmoving target, while the wand user can kill it in 2 seconds. That's an immense difference.
-The wand keeps firing as you press the left button, the bow forces you to click everytime you fire a new arrow.
To fire with the wand, all you need to do is to press the left button, and all the projectiles come out in the direction you choose. With the bow you have to press everytime you want to fire an arrow, and this brings many problems.
°Before you can fire, you have to wait for the charging animation to end, which makes sense, but considering the rate at which the wand fires, it gives an enormous disadvantage to the bow user.
°Before you can fire a second arrow, you have to wait around a 1/4 of a second, the time for the character to come back to the normal neutral position. If you click before this amount of time, the left click gives no results you have to wait another 1/4 before you can fire again. Again, the wand user has none of these problems. Even if the same problems presents itself to the wand user, the speed at which the wand fires its projectiles pays back for the amount of time they have to wait to fire again.
°Even if the wand is less precise than the bow (more on this later), it is still precise enough to kill a user that is charging its blows in... 2 seconds. This is because the normal arrow is quite slow at a long distance. As soon as another user notices that I'm attacking him, he comes right at my direction, so bow users are usually forced to fire at a medium/medium-to-low distance from their opponents. From this distance the precision of the bow makes no difference against the imprecision of the wand, which will always hit you, unless you are moving around.
-The arrow works against most other weapons, but it stands no chance against the wand.
All these discrepancies in balance make it an absurd challange, with parity of skill, for a bow user to beat a wand user. I always have a chance against most of the other weapon users (even with the bow possibly being the weakest weapon in the game), but I always lose against wand users.
Something should be done to improve the situation. I don't know what precisely, it's just a question of balance, there should be many fine tuned correction with arrow speed, arrow damage, charge speed and stuff like that, as well as corrections with the input for bow users. I don't know if bow users should be able to fire arrows just by keeping the left button pressed as it happens with the wand, it makes sense for the wand but I think that in the case of the bow it would encourage sloppy playing. I'd say that bow users should be able to charge again another arrow soon after they fire the first, at least.
MISCELLANEOUS PROBLEMS WITH THE BOW (i can't say if the same problems are present in the wand, i can only speak for the bow):
-Sometimes the special attack doesn't come out when I want it to. More than once it happened that I had to click at least 3 times before the special attack came out. I lost many chances to defeat opponents this way.
-When I am knoked down and I shoot the special attack at a certain direction, the arrow comes out at the direction I was before I was made to fall. This is a very annoying problem.
-The bow is a lot less precise in the horizontal direction than it is in the vertical direction. It is at least 1cm off near the left-right directions.
Customer support service by UserEcho
mhhhh is so long ...no read kvek.
The bow deals more damage than the wand, but the wand is still much more powerful for the following reasons:
-The bow shoots around 60 x m, while the wand shoots 240 x m, this means that the wand is 4 times faster than the bow.
-The wand takes 8 hits to kill, the bow 6, this means that the bow needs 6 seconds to kill an unmoving target, the wand only 2.
-The bow is more precise than the wand, but the slowness at which the arrow goes forces bow users to be a lot nearer to their targets. At that distance (middle/middle-to-short) the imprecision of the wand makes no difference at all.
-The wand allows for fast repeated attacks just by pressing the left button, the bow makes you click and wait each attack.
+ other miscellaneous problems with the bow.
still toooooo loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
The bow sucks. D:<
too long
lazy ass boy
Explain why everyone uses a bow not a wand then?
Cuz it's cooler and more entertaining than the wand.
Yea you forgot the eat stamina variable that the wand comes with, so cowards can run with a bow and shoot easier.
If you are good you can kill an archer while it's running, if you aren't you can't. Simple as that.
It's not really a variation of skill, it's the lack of skill in people who don't care for the rush of REAL fighting.
Running is an integral part of fighting, included running away. You can't decide what others are going to do against you, but you can decide how you're going to react. If someone can't help but poking and running, you won't stop them by telling them so, you have to develop strategies to punish them. Acrobatic fighting is totally legit as well, same thing.
Acrobatic Fighting? SO what you are saying is that bows and mages are fair? DO YOU understand that in the fabric of actual combat in this game there was a FUN to approaching problems in different ways. Hell I wouldn't be so pissed off if bows and mages weren't in arena, bows being superior in annoying but you don't get the premise. IF an enemy is a bow and you have melee weapons, ALL you can do is be aggressive, and if the enemy is smart They can easily punish you by shield bashing or shooting you while you roll.
If two people have melee they are at equal ground and don't have to worry about blocking/kicking or dodging after a running enemy. It's just not logical to put a ranged weapon in a melee focused game. It loses meaning. In general both of these weapons should have harsher range limits and more handicaps. Because essentially this game has become bringing a knife to a gunfight.
But y'know, my opinion doesn't matter. Hell Rez even disregards us 'old' wilds.io users and you know, he can continue ruining this game.
Nobody is going to take away long-range weapons just because you don't know how to deal with them. You like melee weapons more? Fine, use them. Just play and learn how to beat the archer and the mage instead of being the old man yelling at clouds.
Never asked for them to be taken away, but complaining of the uselessness in ranked modes, but there is no learning how to beat seasoned archers and mages in open area without items, no one will really admit what this really is, and you're ignorance is proof of that.
Yeah, there shouldn't be ranged weapons in arena
Ahaha, 3 downvotes on the bow being cooler than the wand!
Aha ahaha ahahahahah, khm no.
Wand suck cuz it eats stamina. Bow more better then wand.
Didn't remember the detail of the stamina. How many projectiles does it take to finish the stamina?
NOT MANY
hehehe, all of them deal not much harm
also, u can block all of them
Around 8 shots to eat 100% of your standard stamina, with 2 full stamina belts you have 16 shots.
If I'm right that 8 shots can kill an unmoving target quite easily in 2 seconds, that seems pretty much right.
Yes, but you also have to be sniper against moving target when you fight with wand. And you have to don't move to regenerate your stamina faster, but it's too risky in fight with some kind of experienced player.
You do know people have to get up close to really hit with the wand (unless using a clone potion, but they were nerfed) the bows just feel faster and more natural, also people can shoot them really fast with the correct timing, it's very scary, But I am going to have to -1 this post, I think bows don't need a buff, and I think wands and bows in general are a MISTAKE.
But in reality, wand and bows can be OP now since kick is broken and block/kicking strategy is essentially flawed. So take advantage of that while you can. While I stick to the more fun ways of melee while you run and gun.
Kick doesn't seem broken at all to me. I've been killed many times my own arrows this last week.
That was before the update dimwit
Today a guy killed me with a kick that seemed to last an eternity. I waited on purpose for the kick animation to end to shoot him, it arrived at the very last instant of the animation and it came right back at me. The kick just works. This, or there are instances in which it doesn't work as well. Not my experience though.
Ummm sorry, but wand absolutely cannot kill an unmoving target in 2 seconds. It does tiny damage, and eats stamina. The projectiles also are very slow, so while it is easy to hit people, it is quite difficult to do major damage with it.
Bow on the other hand, is really good. It barely uses stamina for the charge, and you can block after firing a projectile, stopping people from kicking back. If you fire even 3-4 projectiles with a wand, and then block, you will do TINY damage. The wand is not better than bow
"wand absolutely cannot kill an unmoving target in 2 seconds." I don't know the precise timing since I couldn't experiment that, but it's certainly near that. The bow just takes a lot longer to deal an attack.
As I said in the post, the wand deals little damage, but it's the speed that makes it powerful. The wand is a lot faster than the bow, and if we tested it I can assure you that the wand is just better in pretty much any situation. That's what I see while playing and looking at other people playing.
I play bow, and just saying, I'll pretty much destroy a wand user (unless it's lysiane or another pro ;). The wands projectiles are super slow, do terrible damage, and eat stamina so you can't run around. The bows fast projectiles and damage make it Soo much better than the wand. It takes longer, but it does more damage and is easier to hit people. Buy both weapons. Try them.
want too strong??? bow too weak??? WT#
Please, if you have to dislike my post, do so while refuting the points I listed in the main post, or sharing your experience as a wand/bow user.
Does it because anti-bow/wand rebellion
if there is an op weapon in the game its bow and the wand is the weakest right after spear
I rarely see any bow player in the first three positions. It's usually wand, sword and claws users that end up there. That must mean something (of course the first factor in someone taking the first 3 positions is skill above anything else).
if they didnt train aiming its quite obvius they wont be first wand shoots many bullets so its easier to hit somebody with it but there is nothing much to train if you train bow its almost impossible to kill you becouse you can easily hit your enemy from distance running at the same time so he needs to be tricky to get you while you cannat run and shood at the same time with wand becouse it eats up stamina
no i dont use bow its just observations
PROPOSAL: We're going to test what's stronger between the bow and the wand in a match. If you are with me, we can go in the practice room later today or another day in which only bow and wand users are allowed and we will test my doubts out. I'll post the link here if you want to do it.
*i hardly ever play with a bow (TRAINING IS NEEDED)
So basically you lack experience for you own argument -1
Upvoted. There was no need to downvote him just because he shared an opinion. His experience against LRW is enough.
I would play with you, I have wand and bow in my weapon collection, but there's one obstacle - I'm just too lazy to do it XD
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is your mother
YOU HAVE NO FUCKING LIFE
the wand is NOT more powerful as the bow. first, it doesnt deal 1/8 damage, more like 1/16 or even less. Second, it eats a LOT of stamina and third, the wand projectiles are very VERY slow and can be easily dogded/blocked
I couldn't calculate with precision the damage dealt by the wand, but it's around 8 hits. Even if it wasn't the case, it would still deal much more damage than the bow in a shorter amount of time. Not 2 seconds but 4 against the 6 needed for the bow.
How many projectiles are needed to finish the stamina bar though?
ahhh just use my knowledge:
Bow 1.5 damage per hit (distant), 1 damage per hit (melee).
Wand 1 damage per hit (distant and melee).
Your argument is entirely based on people standing still, not blocking, or attacking back. And your right. Wand is better at killing afk players. But not in real combat.
...no
Please elaborate.
Bow is a weapon that can shoot an endless spam of arrows. They can be timed in between your kicks and jumps, and bow is most definitely better than wand. Wand doesn't need a buff, it needs a nerf more that anything. And wand I think is fine as it is.
Wand eats away stamina like a beast, and even if you just stand ground, it's a very disgusting risk to stand ground and shoot when the enemy could easily defend and come right next to you and attack.
Bow, on the other hand, uses very little energy, even while running. Also its projectile speed makes it so that you could easily snipe someone with chipping speed.
And I'm the one who uses both weapons (and others :v) and seen its negative/positive statistics without using math or any calculations.
It's just a base of how you use the weapon, and what situation it is in
as of right now i think wand is only for 2v2, and bow is everywhere because of its nearly eternal bridge/arena spam.
Also here's the thing
who has time to use the ice staff without having to defend itself? (cough 2v2 but that's not the point)
meh i played too much and played too little >_>
Oh ye. Pizzao told me you're goood.
I'm just gonna bump this because it's really well stated, I love the statistics ans stuff :p
Here, just get it and have fun.
M's in my bank account hehe
y didint you just bye the wand in the first place and be like Harold trotter?....sipp out
Have you ever used wand? Your calculations are very good aside from the fact that you didn't consider the fact that the wand takes up stamina with each shot. You said 240 projectiles per second, but it's probably closer to 60, because you are limited by the stamina. Most of those projectiles won't hit because of blocking, kicking, etc, so very little damage will be done. There's also the fact that the wand's special is virtually useless, as opposed to the bow special, which is very good. The wand will only kill someone really quickly if they're low on health, stunned, or frozen. Because of these factors, most of the wilds community considers the wand to be the worst(or one of the worst) weapons.
Also the wand takes up a lot of stamina so it makes up for it... plus you should have gotten the wand and tried it out before you made this post you stinky head... sipp out
;-; It all depends on how the player uses certain items...
But if you want a BIASED opinion of mine...here it is:
Axe...nothing wrong about this one.
Ice Wand pretty much sucks in a 1v1...
Sword > Hammer
Claw > Sword (Pretty hard to tell which is better ;v)
Hammer > Spear (Why you ask? Prepare to parry lmao)
Spear = Claw (May sound surprising...but for a spear, get a parry = ultimate pokes, for a claw, get a parry = death)
Sword > Spear
Hammer > Claw
Might've missed some ;p
Bow?
Yea,what s wrong with it?I mean,reload is to fast and damage sucks,but srsly?!
Owh lmao. Bow > Sword (If you parry dem lelel
Hammer > Bow
Spear > Bow
Yeah, you get the idea ;v
#TeamSword
#TeamSpear one member: me
Meh, #TeamSpear, the first weapon I've ever bought and weapon I'm really good at ;p
It wasn't my first weapon, but I started to use it after update with lunge and unique throw, so high five
It was to long so I just read the ending
OK everyone, I'll admit: I was too quick with my assestment. These last days I've been able to play more and it's true that the wand isn't that much stronger than the bow. I wrote my post after just 2 days after I stopped playing for 9 months or so. I probably just met very good players by chance.
Now... I have to find a way to get my account back.